They spam me and other bloggers and some music journos with their new newsletter. I take umbrage for being spammed and they explain how they live in a reality distortion field:
Have a read of the actual email and you might notice we’re actually one of Dublin’s more reputable music PR companies offering you some news and a few odds and ends of some of our artists. Spam nothing, we put you in our address book as readers of yer blog.
Obviously the shared brain cell was going for the NCT today. Byes.
Update: Lakota don’t seem to be able to get their story straight.
First this explanation:
I merely supplied our new, young intern with some addresses for blogs that may be interested in what we were offering. It was intended to offer Irish bloggers free tickets, mp3s, and videos before other people get them in the media.
Then this explanation:
Our new, young intern was entrusted with the job of updating our database of contacts.
We deal with press, radio and blogs in general. Rather than request emails from people and seek approval for sending them a newsletter, he swiped them from somewhere.
It’s also been pointed out to me that they put me on the guest list for Halfset so I’ve happily removed the Halfset video from this blog and will not mention the band here again.
And I do not take lightly threats of legal action from their supporters in the comments of this post.
ha, I got that email as well. Looking through the list of recipients (surely that’s bad form as well, or else a misguided attempt to make it look less like spam) I saw your address, and having seen what you’ve written here before I reckoned you would, as you say, “take umbrage”!
congratulations though, this post is now the first Google.ie result for ‘Lakota’
[…] via Mulleynet – Denise Cox’s Blog has some great details on the new regulations. Posted in Web Issues | […]
Be carful Damien the Lakota are a proud people. 😉
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_people
Yeah thought it might be spam but with signing up the mailing lists of so many labels- from a former blogger as current band member
Ah feck-hit return on a popup and that went ahead….anyway was going to say that you would think that a former blogger would know not to spam people but I suppose you can never tell. At least he wasnt plugging his current band.
Maybe a disclaimer on your http://www.mulley.net/contact-details/ would be a good idea. Something that says, don’t add me to any good-damned-lists, or you will feel the wrath of Mulley.
I can’t even find a website for this so called PR agency.
Who was it from Damien? I know Cillian very well and that doesn’t sound like the kind of thing he’d usually do.
I think you may be overreacting a little bit. You could have just mailed back saying please don’t send me any more info and that would be the end of it.
@Bren – I hate spam too and I don’t think it’s fair for us to have to respond to spam emails. Some people just don’t have the time to deal with this sort of crap.
[…] to Keith Shirley – we freak out because we are sick and tired of it – Mulley was right to out these lazy arrogant time wasters who for some reason think they are offering some sort of valuable service. For you to provide these […]
1) THOU SHALT NOT SEND NEWSLETTERS TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT SIGNED UP.
2) THOU SHALT NOT SEND BULK MAILINGS TO *ANY* LIST WITHOUT AN AUTOMATED UNSUBSCRIBE OPTION.
3) THOU SHALL USE THE FUCKING BCC BOX. WHAT DO YOU THINK GOD INVENTED IT FOR?
It really is as simple as that, Why are we debating this?
@bren Can you supply me with your mother’s mobile number so I can ring her at 3am and try and sell her something she never asked for? Don’t worry, she can tell me not to ring her again. That’s cool right?
Lakota are legally not allowed to inconvenience me and then have me ask them not to do it again. They’re now blaming it on an intern but the Clinton defense is no excuse.
Are you as familiar with the defamation laws as you are with the legalities of sending someone unsolicited emails?
I suspect you might be soon…
Martina
Im aware of the irony of contributing to what might be the most pointless thread I have ever seen on the internet but is this really the blog of a fully grown adult? A thread complaining about spam presented as some fucking righteous crusade by the downtrodden blogger community against the eternal tyranny of Lakota? Could you not just have dealt with this privately, with a modicum of decorum and a shred of dignity instead of broacasting it like a self-important tool to your opinionated mates? Of all the bloggable topics across time & space you picked an unsolicited mail as a subject worthy for public consumption and publish personal information about the person concerned? And then have the temerity to make the ludicrous comparison of an email to a phone call to someone’s mother at 3.00am? You sir are a total fuckstick, drunk on the miniscule crumb of power that this tedious little blog affords you.
Amazing sense of timing there. I’m sure I’ll take the anonymous comments from a friend of Cillian to heart.
Believe me sir, this is far more about getting to the nub of why so many bloggers are such abject cunts than defending any particular individuals. Im just curious whether you’re that bereft of meaningful content that you think an everyday occurence like an unsolicited email is material worthy of publication and worthy of your readers or if you are genuinely happy to operate as a sub-tabloid vehicle for the excruciating minutia of your own daily existence. It’s a fair question and seeing as you’re in the business of opinions why not offer one?
“Could you not just have dealt with this privately, with a modicum of decorum and a shred of dignity…?”
I think the point is rather that he did. They spammed him, he contacted them to say this was not okay, and instead of saying “Fair cop, many apologies, we’ll fix that” they responded with something that amounted to “We’re such achingly hip hipsters, you should be GLAD to get mail from us!”
Which brings us to rule #4:
4) KNOW WHO YOU’RE EMAILING
This response of Damien’s was entirely, completely, 100% predictable. Given the setup, I could have written his blog post and most of the subsequent 15 comments myself and saved us all a lot of bother.
So, the moral of the story is:
If you don’t want the #1 Google result for your company to be “Your Company Are Stupid Motherfuckers” then know who you’re sending mail to.
Mulley was a bad, bad target for unsolicited bulk email. Clearly, Lakota wasn’t particularly familiar with Mulley, or with his trademark style, when they threw his name onto their list.
I imagine they are somewhat better educated about their mailing list demographic now.
So Mr. Anonymous Coward Remote tells me I shouldn’t be writing stuff on my blog and commenting and then asks for a comment. Jesus, what a retard.
what is yer problem??
eh – I actually think Cillian and the rest of Lakota are quite a good bunch of heads… (disclosure of interest- i work for another despicable music promo agency/ record label as well as an even more dispicable broadcaster and know that lot and probably ‘spam’ media outlets to get the message out there).. they actually do more to support local indie acts than others…
you invite comments and you is in the public sphere sport… i think these guys probably put you on their mailing list for info, tickets, cds etc? what is you complaing about?!?!?
methinks you just can’t please every blogger… also its a little ironic for bloggers to be supporting increased regulation of communication no – maybe that just’s an irish big brother thing??
anyhow this is all a bit dull so am off to twitter…
What’s a new young intern to do…
Spam is spam is spam.
No one should even be considering defending it and as for Mr. Anonymous covering a lack of intelligence and coherent argument.
Also, to Martina, surely you can see the difference (and legal ramifications) between someone choosing out of free will to consume information and opinion (Damien’s Blog) and some PR company clogging up your inbox with unsolicited email?
And finally, if lakota had something worth promoting they wouldn’t have to resort to pushing out copious amounts of spam.
Argh… People are arguing on the internet!!! And worse! They’re expecting people to make sense!!!
How many times has this kind of shite been blamed on a “new young intern”. Face it, Lakota, and friends of Lakota – you fucked up. And you doubley fucked up by not holding your hands in the air and saying “sorry, we fucked up” but by giving some lame-ass excuse to Mulley of all people. The man has a blog that is read by thousands. There’s a precedent here with companies that have fucked up in just this way before. What the fuck do you expect him to do?
If I were you, I’d be careful about fucking up again.
Fuck.
Calling a race of people MFs is the act of an infantile maggot brain.
You want a duel of wits with me? Come to my blog, dirt bag.
I will hand you your maggotty ass.
I am Chickasaw, a sister race of the Proud Lakota. And we Chickasaw were never conquered; never defeated… for a damn good reasons.
VotingFemale
Oh the hilarity.
He wasn’t calling “Lakota, the race of people in the US” stupid mother fuckers. He was calling “Lakota, the bizarrely named company in Ireland” stupid mother fuckers.
Reading is fundamental!
I see from her blog that VotingFemale above is supporting Sarah Palin for Prez in 2012. Oh the hilarity indeed.
I said this at the Collision Course event the other night, briefly I’ll say it again here because I deal with music PR all the time with my radio head on.
Labels do this all the time with professional media people. I’m on dozens of them, none of which I’ve ever subscribed to. It doesn’t really bother me.
Here’s why – I’m paid to work on radio. It’s my 9 to 5. It’s part of my job to keep up to date with band information like this. Some of the info might be of use to me when I’m talking about bands, looking for interviews and the like.
BLOGGERS ARE NOT PAID. Merely talented and enthusiastic amateurs and PRIVATE CITIZENS. THEY DO NOT HAVE JOBS IN THE MEDIA. They work in tech, as solicitors, in banks, as civil servants, in Centra, in offices. So adding them to lists like this is spamming whether you like it or not. The laws apply to PR companies too.
Abusive stuff blanketing all bloggers as “such abject cunts” does nothing for PR’s image with the online community or anyone who’ll read here.
Damien is the wrong target to pick too. It was only last week some of us attended his first blogger/PR event specifically designed to see what we can do for you and vice versa. He’s the solution, not the problem.
The sensible thing to do if PR is really interested in sending any blogger information is to send a mail saying “Hi, Mr/Ms Blog. This is us, this is what we do, this is what we have on offer. Fancy going on our mailing list? Just drop a mail in return if you are and we’ll sort that. Thanks for your time, John Q PR”
Just a thought.
you’re at it again, Mulley
Its actually strange but a very similar story featured in the Business post a couple of weeks ago featuring your buddy Neylon.
Surely they wont run with a similar story twice, or is your man adrian weckler on your team now as well? Actually i notice he is actually starting to mention you quiet a bit. (Perhaps he’s now in line to get a blog or web award in 2009 now)
I wonder does he know about your history at the Sunday Tribune?
Just a thought.
Hiding behind a dodgy proxy David? Oddness.
I can see both sides of this argument. But I think where a grey area arises is that, in my opinion, blogs are not private spaces. By their very nature they fall somewhere in between the personal and the public. Bloggers may not be media professionals, but their content is published on the web and available for anyone to read. Blogs are still pretty new and I think everyone (including PR people) are still trying to work out the ‘rules’.
Rick, I totally agree with your strategy as to how PRs should approach bloggers (with an opt-in invite), but I’m not sure if bloggers are exactly the same as “private citizens”. If you’re blogging, haven’t you chosen to enter the public arena, to some extent? Discuss.
it’s worth looking at the article, linked to a few pages back, about at how the Green Party got in trouble for doing the very same thing (and apologised). sending an email to a list of bloggers without their prior solicitation is spam; personally/individually contacting a blogger isn’t.
I’m worried by the response, though, in that article that “some bloggers have developed their own set of rules about how they should be approached”. most bloggers fairly obviously put a contact e-mail on their blog – they welcome individual contacts or “approaches”. not wanting mass-mailing seems fairly normal, given the general problem of spam-cluttered inboxes; it’s the PR/journalism industry that seems to have developed their own rules for accepting unsolicited communications, which shouldn’t be expanded to the non-commercial space.
Ah , bloggers make me laugh! Full of self importance, aloofness and “we’re so different”. Guys you’re basically transient DIY web sites that are gradually becoming one more part of the mass media. As a result, you should expect to receive unsolicited messages and “updates” from third parties. Welcome to the real world! You can’t realistically claim to be a public medium and then claim the privacy rights of an individual.
Rick …
“BLOGGERS ARE NOT PAID. Merely talented and enthusiastic amateurs and PRIVATE CITIZENS. THEY DO NOT HAVE JOBS IN THE MEDIA. They work in tech, as solicitors, in banks, as civil servants, in Centra, in offices. So adding them to lists like this is spamming whether you like it or not.”
Absolute tosh! It is a long time since I’ve read such junk. Blogs are a form of media and are widely available to anybody who has access to the Internet. It’s irrelevant if they are paid are not. In your own industry, there are dozens of community radio stations run by volunteers and amateurs and indeed many “moms and pops” commercial radio stations in the USA. Would it be wrong of a record company to put them on a mailing list?
Blogs are public and in many areas of interest, such as music, claim to be influential. Bloggers claim to have an audience and this one has a counter on the page to indicate popularity and usage. After all “The man has a blog that is read by thousands”. Just like Rick’s station subscribes to the JNLR to measure his audience. I would therefore claim it as my right to contact you with or without your permission with relevant information. E-mail is a reasonable, efficient and cost effective means of contacting a blogger. It is not spamming. Obviously, if a blogger (or any other individual) asks to be removed from a list and this is not complied with then the sender is fair game for a roasting
While the personal opinions of bloggers on a topic are refreshing they also need to be informed. Many also like to give the impression that they are ahead of the posse i.e the traditional media – so its not unreasonable if a PR company or other party provide the information. In fact a lot of bloggers should welcome it … rather than ‘borrowing’ content off other web sites as seems to be the norm these days.
Damien …
“Can you supply me with your mother’s mobile number so I can ring her at 3am and try and sell her something she never asked for? Don’t worry, she can tell me not to ring her again. That’s cool right”
It’s not cool but where’s the similarity? I’m struggling … help me! You never mentioned you were getting calls late at night. Sorry to hear! I though you were just getting e-mails from a music PR company with information that would be of use to you in your role as a content creator and publisher. No?
Personally, you should be apologising to Lakota for your rude and ignorant remark.
The number of anonymous posts is crazy, if you have an opinion why not share it with us and tell us who you are instead of hiding behind your computer.
“Tom Doyle says:
January 28, 2009 at 9:24 am
The number of anonymous posts is crazy, if you have an opinion why not share it with us and tell us who you are instead of hiding behind your computer.”
Rather ironic don’t you think? What should anybody choose to reveal their identity on a transient web site? Most blogs are anonymous (this one excepted) so why not the commenters? What would be achieved if you know the identity of the person? As an invisible person can I not claim my invisible right to be invisible?!? 🙂
I find it odd that many bloggers claim the right to free speech and say what they want – true or untrue – yet when somebody disagrees with their opinion and disses them they suddenly go on a witch hunt seeking out IP addresses to ‘out’ them etc. The right to blog is not unfettered.
Most bloggers are hiding behind their computers. I have looked at a few. If they wrote some factually incorrect or libelous about me or anyone the most information that I would probably have is an e-mail contact form or a free e-mail address to get in touch.
I have no problem with anonymity and one has to respect that as there may be a variety of reasons from professional reasons right down to being shy. Therefore if a poster wants to post anonymously then let them at it. The blogger has the right to moderate.
What a silly reply… won’t even bother replying to tripe. There’s enough replies like that already on this post. Generally from people afraid to step out from behind their anonymity.
“I welcome hate mail, love letters, questions, comments, CDs/records/cassettes/DVDs/books to review, and whatever else you’d like to kindly direct our way.”
The above quote is taken from a credible blogger’s site (and no, it’s not my own you sharp-tongued master of wit you)
As mentioned by a handful of clear-thinking commenters who weren’t too busy licking your ass, you could well have used some of the info that Lakota as original material for your blog. Like it or not, as a blogger you are part of the media and as such there is an onus on you to accept everything that goes with that role. I’m sure that you, like the rest of us, get plenty of real spam into your email inbox on a regular basis; spam from people trying to scam you out of a buck or two. It seems to me like all Lakota were doing was sending you material that they thought you would be interested in, seeing as how it was in-line with your profession (or hobby, as the case may be). If you are too narrow-minded to appreciate this info and turn it into something that you could potentially write about, then the professional thing to do would have been to kindly, and privately, request that they remove you from their mailing list. By publishing this post, all you have achieved is making yourself look petty and unprofessional, not Lakota.
Lou or Katie or whatever the fuck your real name is. Your own quote shows what someone else said they’d welcome. They invited contact. I did not. If you’re dumb enough to think that a blog is “the media” then I suppose your dumb enough to follow the suggestions in the email that asked you to leave a comment here.
I actually didn’t receive any email asking to leave a comment… up until now I read your blog pretty regularly. As one of your readers, I find it really petty and immature for you to react to my opinions like this. You obviously don’t have the intelligence to construct a decent reply so have to resort to calling me ‘dumb’. Ouch. You’ve lost one reader in me and the way you’re going I’m sure I won’t be the last.
If you’re going to publish a post entitled ‘Latoka are Stupid Motherfuckers’ you’re inviting conflicting comments…. at least have the conviction to follow it through with legitimate feedback. It seems to me that all you’ve done is abuse anyone who dares disagree with ‘The Great Damien Mulley’. Aren’t you able to form a constructive argument? To be honest, like everyone else with sense, I couldn’t be bothered with this anymore. Good luck with your ‘journalistic endeavours’… I’m sure you’ll go far.
(and yes, bloggers make up a huge percentage of new media, if you don’t realise this then you don’t deserve your “1000s of readers”)
Arse and door love. Bye!
“Aren’t you able to form a constructive argument?”
….. Obviously not. Point proven.
10 mins later…
Make up your mind. Whoops, there’s that door again!
Briefly, because Iheartbloggers addressed me, albeit anonymously.
The point I made was, just to be totally clear, adding ANYONE to a bulk mailing list without their consent is illegal, spamming, call it what you like at worst. At best it’s a surefire way of pissing off the people you’re trying to get your message out to. Counterproductive, no?
ANYONE. Paid or not. The point I was making was that those of us who work in the mainstream media just shrug our shoulders, say “meh” and get on with it because it’s part of our paying day job. Bloggers do this as a hobby so thus, rightly, are more prickly when it comes to that sort of thing.
“I would therefore claim it as my right to contact you with or without your permission with relevant information.”
You can claim that as much as you like but it won’t make it legal. You could also similarly try claiming your arse tastes like strawberries but that won’t make it so either.
“E-mail is a reasonable, efficient and cost effective means of contacting a blogger. It is not spamming.”
See? BINGO!!!!! You’re right, and there’s the rub. Please do e-mail bloggers who have their addresses on their blogs to your hearts content. I can’t find a single person who disagrees with that. Fire away. Just don’t subscribe them to mass mailing lists with 400 other people…
Which led me to a thought. And I asked a friend in PR. And he agreed with me.
It strikes me that those PR people who have chosen to anonymously represent their profession here (if they are real PR people, let’s add. They’ve all commented anonymously so we have no idea if they are or not) don’t want to put in any extra effort with that sort of thing beyond what they currently do with most mainstream media. Lash a load of names in a list and hey presto.
Individual e-mails (even just changing the name in the “Dear…” bit!) takes time on the part of the PR person. More time than the traditional way.
The bottom line to all this is, surely, that PR people have snake oil to sell to bloggers (or else they wouldn’t be here), many bloggers are interested in subscribing to your pamphlet, all they ask is not to be put on large bulk mailing lists without their consent.
Individual e-mails good, adding to bulk mailing lists, bad.
There’s no rocket science to this.
i have to say, having no ties with either yourself damien or lakota it would seem that you have a serious axe to grind with these guys for the relatively small faux pas of receiving some spam from them.
i don’t think it warrants such a harsh response and have to agree with a previous poster who said the title and sentiments expressed in this thread come across as plain rude.
i read and like your blog a lot and it’s your domain around here, fair play by the way, so of course you can say as you please, but in this instance you come across uncharacteristically petty and aggressive.
life is short, it’s only an email.
best of luck with everything and keep up the (non aggressive) great work.
jan
Mulley, why wont you engage with anyone who has expressed reservations about this post? It was an inflammoatory post that was inevitably going to cause heated discussion. Surely common decency demands that you at least enagage with the readers of your blog rather than simply insulting them?
@jan I wouldn’t have blogged if Lakota didn’t come back to me with such a rude and condescending reply both from thir intern and then from the owner himself who suggested because he shook my hand and added me to a guest list for his band (Halfset) that I shouldn’t be complaining.
A sorry or a “we fucked up” would have been fine but instead I got a “what is your problem?” reply. As you said, life is short and I won’t let any dickhead get away with such ignorant behaviour. Thanks for the comment about the site.
@Noel, you may have noticed that there are 44 comments and I’ve replied to just a few, mostly those who hide behind proxies and those who left retarded comments like the girl who created a fake name to leave a comment defending Lakota and saying because I have a blog I have no right to complain about spam.
I respect the opinion of most others who left a comment whether they agreed with me or disagreed. Yourself and Jen included. Perhaps next time I’ll leave a comment after a few comments saying thanks and I don’t agree? I doubt I can reply to every one just saying thanks, it’ll look a bit er spammy.
At the bottom of this blog post you’ll see a link to the stats of this blog, they’re public. If you were looking during the week you’ll see a lot of visits from one or two computers and a lot of people being sent here via an email which I am led to believe was sent asking for people to support Lakota and teach me a lesson or whatever. I won’t repond kindly to fakery.
[…] 5, 2009 Unlike some people, there is nothing, nothing, nothing that Katie-Lilga and I like more than free stuff. We love love […]
How dare you speak of the Lakota in such a manner.
If I have misunderstood your posting and you are actually talking about a company or group using the name Lakota, then I DEMAND that you clarify the situation along with an apology to the nation of the Lakota…..
To say the very least your posting title, through your own negligence, due to the fact. that YOU didn’t state. the fact that it was a company, suggests that your remarks are racist and therefore by definition ILLEGAL..
I recommend therefore that you retract your comment with an apology and further clarify the situation.
Friends of the Lakota Ireland
To all my relations
Tom