Barcamp Cork II – November 1st. Do come along, it should be fun. Sponsors sought too but do remember this is massively non-commercial.
RTE.ie pays tribute to Twenty on his retirement. I guess if Bertie can go, so can Twenty. Should we call him iar-blogger?
Emily Tully has a new documentary series on the Wives’ of GAA stars. It goes out on Today FM each Sunday for October.
Pat Phelan, not a pirate though he does allow consumers to relieve telcos of their fortunes.
Win two tickets to the Future of Web Apps event in London.
Leaning on a Shovel, the blog for OnlineTradesmen.com
The Tuesday Push – in numbers.
Via Enda iPhone Coasters.
Never been to this place. Sounds interesting and so very old school. I like old-skool cafs, they have character and interesting characters.
Anyone remember this ad? Genius
I’ll bring you to Boyers for breakfast – definitely not to be missed.
Is it sad that I really enjoyed that piece on Boyers and now I want to go there to make sure it still looks the same as when I was a kid??
with regards to online tradesmen – or any variation of – here’s my thoughts on….
They tried to spruce up the Boyers restaurant a few years ago but it’s still pretty much the same whoopsadaisy. I used to have lunch there the odd time a few years ago (great value at the time) and it’s great that the regulars enjoy it so much. But when I’ve called in a couple of times in the last couple of years I haven’t stayed because I found it too depressing – it feels a bit like a home!
Re. the RTE report.
Was Twenty the first blogger to be given a book deal? I remember seeing the Bitter Pill in print before Twenty’s book. I think there was one before that too.
The Bitter Pill set up a blog (since deleted) to publicise the book. He wasn’t a blogger who got a book deal. And I don’t know of any before that but I’ll happily be corrected if that’s the case.
I’m the MD of Onlinetradesmen.com. I’ve read your blog and I would agree with your replies and those of Phil. While I am a fan of ALCI and the GLDA, they only cover landscapers. Our service is there to promote and differentiate qualified trade professionals across the board and provide a reliable service to property owners in the home improvement sector. We believe that there is a big difference in the quality of tradesmen who have trained for 4 years over those that have not. Our partnerships with FAS, RIAI, PSA and other accreditation bodies reflect that – maybe we should contact ALCI on the landscaping side of things ? I’d welcome your thoughts.
More recently we have built a console for our tradesmen to publish their own web sites and manage their businesses. Happy to show you our technology if you would like to see it.
A Chara Ted,
I am not suggesting that sites like yours do not serve a purpose or have a role to play. What i would query as I have done, is the principles upon which ‘clients’ are accepted into your site. Ultimately – it is a business – and without new clents – the business doesn’t grow.
That said – it is not one that is there to protect the client and equally the contractor – the point i made in relation to eddie hobbs article.
It is a database of people who will do a certain trade. Whether accredited in anyway or not. To that I do know very good landscaping companies where there are no qualifications – but are reputable companies – and also people who are good tradesmen , qualified yet bad at business.
There is a difference between a qualified trade professional and a limited company. Based on that I dont understand your partnership with Fás or Fetac for that matter. To be qualified by one of these bodies does not make you a registered limited company.
Regarding the ALCI [i am not speaking on their behalf] – all of the members are registered and the entry to the ALCI for those who wish to become members is a lot more stringent than those of yours. To that matter so you provide a mediation service for people who accept to use tradesmen through your website should problems occur?
– do you visit the actual jobs that a ‘client’ [of yours] says is his?
– are all of your ‘clients’ insured and is this vetted?
– if there is a problem with a client/ job/ etc where you have been the contact
I would also like to pint out no.4 of your conditions for sourcing service providers on Onlinetradesman:
4. You fully indemnify Onlinetradesmen from all liability, whether it be direct, indirect, punitive, incidental, special, consequential damages or any damages whatsoever including, without limitation, personal injury or death, third party injury or death, damages to property or data or profits arising out of or in any way connected with the use or performance of Onlinetradesmen, the Onlinetradesmen web site or its services which include but are not limited to the sourcing of third party services or products.
So is the person who employs a trade – literally [as your conditions state] on their own and therfore?
slán go foill
Thanks for the reply Peter – it is very detailed. Happy to answer the detailed queries you make at face value (I’ll take your word that there are no ulterior motives) and provide you with more detail on our business for the greater good.
Quoting: “What I would query as I have done, is the principles upon which ‘clients’ are accepted into your site. Ultimately – it is a business – and without new clents – the business doesn’t grow.”
Yes, we are commercial but the reality is that we turn away significantly more tradesmen than we accept as members. This is fact and is beyond dispute. Tradesmen must have a qualification (FETAC / FAS, Degree etc.) or be a member of a third party association that has verified their expertise – such as ALCI – before we accept them. Believe me, we could have made significantly more revenue by now by relaxing this criteria – as most other sites do – but we have taken a long terms view in the interest of consumers.
Quoting: “That said – it is not one that is there to protect the client and equally the contractor – the point i made in relation to eddie hobbs article”
We offer consumers the assurance that all tradesmen are qualified for the job at hand. Full stop. Users then provide ratings on feedback on tradesmen they use through the system for other users. Is there a fairer or more transparent way of doing this? In relation to our tradesmen – we provide them with significant support for their businesses through our service for a very low fee. Check it out if you are interested.
Quoting ” It is a database of people who will do a certain trade. Whether accredited in anyway or not. To that I do know very good landscaping companies where there are no qualifications – but are reputable companies – and also people who are good tradesmen , qualified yet bad at business.”
Not too happy about your opening statement Peter, a little rough. We are a service, we do not publish a database and all are accredited. Qualifications are the only way that we can vett the sector . After that our tradesmen are trialled in the court of public opinion as above.
Quoting: “There is a difference between a qualified trade professional and a limited company. Based on that I dont understand your partnership with Fás or Fetac for that matter. To be qualified by one of these bodies does not make you a registered limited company. ”
Not sure what you mean here. We register at an individual level. Limited companied are irrelevant, if a tradesman does not personally hold a qualification – he ain’t getting in.
Quoting: ” To that matter so you provide a mediation service for people who accept to use tradesmen through your website should problems occur?
– do you visit the actual jobs that a ‘client’ [of yours] says is his?
– are all of your ‘clients’ insured and is this vetted?
– if there is a problem with a client/ job/ etc where you have been the contact ”
Yes we provide a mediation service. We will visit a site during mediation. Tradesmen are qualified only, they provide a statement on their insurance.
Don’t know why you are asking the latter – please explain motive ??
Quoting ” You fully indemnify Onlinetradesmen…”
Are you really serious here, Peter ? Come on… hard as you might find it to believe, we are actually providing a straight up service that never existed before we launched in 2005, one where property owners can connect to
QUALIFIED tradesmen, compare costs and not spend time wondering and stressing. That’s where we stop. If you want us to accept liability for each of the 180,000 jobs that have been processed through our service in today’s Ireland – then in my opinion you’ve just killed the Goose that laid the golden egg.
Get in touch with us if you want to verify any of this. Our numer is 01 4877380. Ask for me. Thanks.
A Chara Ted,
I have no ulterior motives.. [I didn’t ask for a fluffy link]. thanks for taking my word. For record, I can only take your company at face value – I am not a member, I have never been vetted and can only go by what I know from your site
quote:Not sure what you mean here. We register at an individual level. Limited companied are irrelevant,
The point re qualified staff do not make a limited company and vice versa is the point of wheher all tradesmen pay tax, insurance etc whether the company has only established – [ALCI recommend that the company is 2 years in operation before being accepted as a full member]. This changes it in a sense from trades-person to individual, whether qualified or not.
re the opening statement it wasn’t meant to be insulting in anyway.
Quote:After that our tradesmen are trialled in the court of public opinion as above.
this is the point where within the eddie hobbs article that really got me wondering. I can with a basic Fás cert in horticulture [no disrespect to them] – register with you and within a hour or two have references to say how great I am or equally am not. I can also in the court of pulic opinion have my competitors commented upon in writing. Again in ‘the hobbs article’ this had been done within the homewise.ie site – maybe this could be reviewed?
Philip [in the eddie hobbs article again] did make a valid point in that there is not a physical inspection of previous works [in this he does refer to Barbara Molloys comment albeit] is this the case or you or is it by photograph?
With reference to joining the ALCI i am vetted through trade references and banking as well as insurances etc to ensure [without speaking on behalf of the ALCI – but i assume] that I have never closed/ reopened to suit in the fiscal sense.
I do take your [very well made] points and thank for taking the time but ultimately it is a revenue source and a directory. It is not to [quote from ALCI] As one of its primary objectives… for its members to achieve and preserve high standards. Again, As I have said I am not suggesting that sites like yours do not serve a purpose or have a role to play – but the motives are different to those of a national body which has been introduced to raise standards within a sector and for non profit.
Credit to you Ted, you have responded, something others have refrained from in my E.H. article – *all* bodies where informed. That said it is a public platform you asked to be/ were promoted upon and whether or not I agree with how online directories for trades operate [i’m logic enough to appreciate a company must make money somewhere!] – I have tried to have a structured conversation based on [what I believe to be] valid points and not my opinion [where possible].
Thanks so much for the offer to view your technology and for a chat. To reciprocate if would like a mug of good coffee, the pot is on the boil!
slan go foill
ps our number is 01 8078712 – just ask for me.
I recently used onlinetradesman to get an indication how much it would cost for me to get a 40m2 single storey extension to my house.I got quite a few quotes back which was great.However the difference between quotes was huge.One quote was for 30k and build time was 4-5 weeks.One was for 85k and build time was 10-12 weeks.Both prices and times are rediculous.Surely if these tradesmen hold a qualification they should have a better idea of price and build times.I would love to see what condition 40m2 extension for 30k and built in 4 weeks would be in !!!!
Glad you got a good level of interest in your project. You are now in the driving seat here – ask any of the questions you need to ask to the prospective builders and see what impreseses you.
I trust that both prices that you quote are the ‘best case’ and ‘worst case’ prices – make sure that any pricing you receive is like for like. Get the builder to provide a full specifcation of what is / isn’t included for an accurate comparison. From your shorltlist I would advise getting the builders of interest to come and do a site survey for a final quote – it won’t cost you anything to go down this track. Also you might consider sending them your plans/drawings if you have any.
Call us if you need more input. Thanks, Ted 01 4877380.
Reading these posts with Interest – Ted, fair play for engaging – hard to please everyone I guess!
I’ve used Onlinetradesmen.com for 2 projects, good service and good tradesmen. Use your nugget with regards to sorting out the replies John – It’s not that hard! Email the ones of interest, check their ratings etc. Only so much the interweb can do for you, although that said someone, somewhere is probably working on a webapp that will wipe your ar*e for you!!
I presume this discussion is complete however i would just like to say that i recently used the site and found it good. It is no doubt a very profitable company and Ted must be comended for that. It is even more admirable that he infact turns away insufficiently qualified tradesmen. fair play Ted keep up the good work