Comments on: ISPAI – Join our union or else you’re not against stopping child porn http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/ Invisible people have invisible rights Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:55:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Cormac Callanan http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-908558 Cormac Callanan Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:34:26 +0000 http://www.mulley.net/?p=3664#comment-908558 @Keith. The definition of ISP (Internet Service Provider) actually includes hosting providers since hosting, managed networks, etc ARE internet services. The current term in Ireland for an organisation who provides access to the Internet is an IAP (Internet Access Provider). The use of language in this area is very difficult and has been argued extensively during development of all types of legislation, regulations, decisions, conventions, etc... and no easy solution has ever been found. It is generally agreed now that ISP covers all ecommerce service providers (which is also a possible recursive definition..) @Keith. The definition of ISP (Internet Service Provider) actually includes hosting providers since hosting, managed networks, etc ARE internet services. The current term in Ireland for an organisation who provides access to the Internet is an IAP (Internet Access Provider). The use of language in this area is very difficult and has been argued extensively during development of all types of legislation, regulations, decisions, conventions, etc… and no easy solution has ever been found. It is generally agreed now that ISP covers all ecommerce service providers (which is also a possible recursive definition..)

]]> By: Dan King / Digiweb http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-908397 Dan King / Digiweb Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:58:38 +0000 http://www.mulley.net/?p=3664#comment-908397 We didn't really like the implication that not joining the ISPAI meant we somehow condoned or turned a blind eye towards the problem of child pornography. We've worked very efficiently with the Gardai in the past and we will continue to work with the Gardai as closely as possible whenever necessary in the future. We're all for the hotline and the idea of hotlines. We would have no problem in helping to support and finance a hotline organisation. We believe that if self-regulation is preferred by all stakeholders, especially the Gardai and Department of Justice, then so be it. However, we object to having to join and finance another organisation in order to support the hotline project. Split Hotline.ie into something independent and we'll be the first in line to support it. Could the ISPAI disclose how much funding it requires to operate Hotline.ie? What would be the amount required from the industry partners after any European and State funding is made? We didn’t really like the implication that not joining the ISPAI meant we somehow condoned or turned a blind eye towards the problem of child pornography. We’ve worked very efficiently with the Gardai in the past and we will continue to work with the Gardai as closely as possible whenever necessary in the future.

We’re all for the hotline and the idea of hotlines. We would have no problem in helping to support and finance a hotline organisation. We believe that if self-regulation is preferred by all stakeholders, especially the Gardai and Department of Justice, then so be it.

However, we object to having to join and finance another organisation in order to support the hotline project. Split Hotline.ie into something independent and we’ll be the first in line to support it.

Could the ISPAI disclose how much funding it requires to operate Hotline.ie? What would be the amount required from the industry partners after any European and State funding is made?

]]> By: Stephen McCarron http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-908365 Stephen McCarron Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:04:33 +0000 http://www.mulley.net/?p=3664#comment-908365 Perhaps the ISPAI then should take a more conciliatory, value led approach to member recruitment, rather than driving scaremongery and ridiculous allegation in the press. Perhaps the ISPAI then should take a more conciliatory, value led approach to member recruitment, rather than driving scaremongery and ridiculous allegation in the press.

]]> By: Tom Young http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-908364 Tom Young Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:50:19 +0000 http://www.mulley.net/?p=3664#comment-908364 Stephen, I wouldn't be so sure about the DRED - Date Retention Enforcement Directive. National margins for appreciation are yet to be set by member states. Am working it at the moment. Remember the music rights files share orders from the Commercial Court last year or so? Well the bulk of the downloads were on corporate equipment, so it's a matter of time before regulation is extended. There are vested interests at stake here, more that just the CP problem. In relation to EU legislation and regulations in general you might find they may be more forgiving than a national approach (Ringfencing and creating a rent for all). Working in unison the industry and stakeholders - including yourself, can achieve a lot. Instead of suffering cold inertia and allowing the wheels of bureaucracy and baseless civil servants make the decisions for us regarding the future of our businesses. Tom Stephen,

I wouldn’t be so sure about the DRED – Date Retention Enforcement Directive. National margins for appreciation are yet to be set by member states. Am working it at the moment.

Remember the music rights files share orders from the Commercial Court last year or so? Well the bulk of the downloads were on corporate equipment, so it’s a matter of time before regulation is extended. There are vested interests at stake here, more that just the CP problem.

In relation to EU legislation and regulations in general you might find they may be more forgiving than a national approach (Ringfencing and creating a rent for all).

Working in unison the industry and stakeholders – including yourself, can achieve a lot. Instead of suffering cold inertia and allowing the wheels of bureaucracy and baseless civil servants make the decisions for us regarding the future of our businesses.

Tom

]]> By: Stephen McCarron http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-908362 Stephen McCarron Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:30:37 +0000 http://www.mulley.net/?p=3664#comment-908362 Hi Tom, Legislation will happen at a European level regardless. The ISPAI are not going to make a significant difference. In addition, all the current legislation (such as data retention) do not apply to us, as we do not provide services that fall under. Hi Tom, Legislation will happen at a European level regardless. The ISPAI are not going to make a significant difference. In addition, all the current legislation (such as data retention) do not apply to us, as we do not provide services that fall under.

]]> By: Tom Young http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-908359 Tom Young Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:56:57 +0000 http://www.mulley.net/?p=3664#comment-908359 Must admit I agree with Keith. @ Stephen McCarron, who knows what legislation could bring. Effectively if comparted to WEEE and Waste Management, I shudder at the thoughts. Must admit I agree with Keith. @ Stephen McCarron, who knows what legislation could bring. Effectively if comparted to WEEE and Waste Management, I shudder at the thoughts.

]]> By: Stephen McCarron http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-908358 Stephen McCarron Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:54:01 +0000 http://www.mulley.net/?p=3664#comment-908358 We would actually go one further and state we are a managed services and hosted infrastructure provider. Add Servecentric, Data Electronics, Telecity, Interxion, HP, IBM, Fujitsu Siemens and every MSP with colocation to the list? We would actually go one further and state we are a managed services and hosted infrastructure provider. Add Servecentric, Data Electronics, Telecity, Interxion, HP, IBM, Fujitsu Siemens and every MSP with colocation to the list?

]]> By: Keith http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-908357 Keith Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:17:46 +0000 http://www.mulley.net/?p=3664#comment-908357 Can we also take it that the Sunday Tribune, by not being a member of the ISPAI, is supporting Child Pornography? ;-) On a more serious note, why are ISPAI trying to argue that Hosting365 and Servecentric are ISPs when they're clearly hosting providers - an entirely different thing? Surely the ISP Association of Ireland should know what constitutes an ISP. At least one would hope so. I think that the ISPAI, the Gardaí and the ISPs have been done a significant disservice by the Tribune in this case. Can we also take it that the Sunday Tribune, by not being a member of the ISPAI, is supporting Child Pornography? ;-)

On a more serious note, why are ISPAI trying to argue that Hosting365 and Servecentric are ISPs when they’re clearly hosting providers – an entirely different thing? Surely the ISP Association of Ireland should know what constitutes an ISP. At least one would hope so.

I think that the ISPAI, the Gardaí and the ISPs have been done a significant disservice by the Tribune in this case.

]]> By: Paul Durrant http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-908355 Paul Durrant Wed, 06 Aug 2008 09:29:10 +0000 http://www.mulley.net/?p=3664#comment-908355 By "here" I was referring to some comments in this discussion group and the inferences being incorrectly drawn from the Tribune article. e.g. incorrect extrapolations that ISPAI are criticising the Gardaí - we work in the way we do under agreed Hotline procedures - and the incorrect comparison with IWF as Ronan Lupton has already pointed out. There is nothing specifically misquoted in the Tribune article itself and I did not use the word "sensationalise". However, my "added" comment about reporting to the Gardaí unfortunately lacked the context in which it was stated - and I have explained that in my post above. Obviously short newspaper articles have to paraphrase so I welcome the opportunity of your blog to provide the missing context and background. Paul Durrant General Manager, ISPAI By “here” I was referring to some comments in this discussion group and the inferences being incorrectly drawn from the Tribune article. e.g. incorrect extrapolations that ISPAI are criticising the Gardaí – we work in the way we do under agreed Hotline procedures – and the incorrect comparison with IWF as Ronan Lupton has already pointed out.
There is nothing specifically misquoted in the Tribune article itself and I did not use the word “sensationalise”. However, my “added” comment about reporting to the Gardaí unfortunately lacked the context in which it was stated – and I have explained that in my post above. Obviously short newspaper articles have to paraphrase so I welcome the opportunity of your blog to provide the missing context and background.
Paul Durrant
General Manager, ISPAI

]]> By: Damien http://www.mulley.net/2008/08/05/ispai-join-our-union-or-else-youre-not-against-stopping-child-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-908350 Damien Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:01:15 +0000 http://www.mulley.net/?p=3664#comment-908350 @Paul Durrant: So what parts of that Tribune article are inaccurate, where were you misquoted and are you going to condemn such sensationalism and ask for an apology from the Tribune? @Paul Durrant: So what parts of that Tribune article are inaccurate, where were you misquoted and are you going to condemn such sensationalism and ask for an apology from the Tribune?

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